If the discussion is good, what is the problem? Genuine question.
Lemmy.ml is run by people who spread authoritarian propaganda, most likely the CCP. It’s a real stain on Lemmy and people shouldn’t support or legitimize it in any way.
most likely the CCP
Yeah you’re gonna need a source for that one. I don’t like ml but you can’t just throw that out there without evidence
What kind of source can I offer? Photocopies of internal CCP propaganda documents? This isn’t the kind of thing you can link to a research journal to prove.
The CCP has always relied heavily on propaganda, and is obviously investing on it internationally with things like Tik Tok.
The Fediverse is an easy, easy target. They run their own instance and set their own rules, and there’s absolutely no budget and basically no coordination whatsoever to counter disinformation.
I sincerely doubt that a covert arm of the Chinese propaganda machine would label themselves as Marxist-Leninist.
Why not? Socialism and Anarchy are both very popular among the fringe groups and youth demographics they’re trying to persuade into subterfuge. They’re also targeting LGBT.
Go over to Hexbear or Lemmygrad and you can clearly see tons of pro-China and pro-Russia (more specifically Pro-Jinping and Pro-Putin) posts all hours of the day, and all of it is constantly flooding into the instances that federate with them.
Yeah, it’s honestly been really disappointing to me to see the general apathy towards all the propaganda on here
I’d love to recommend the fediverse to friends, the idea is incredible
They stoke extremist political views in their “enemies” societies while also spreading propaganda. Its a facade
So it’s speculative? You’re assuming this is happening and have no evidence other than they’re sympathetic to the CCP? Just so we’re clear.
It’s not my problem or fault that you find it difficult to support your claim.
It’s an easy target but also a near worthless one. What does the CCP gain from getting a bunch of terminally online Linux nerds on their side? No one making real decisions that could effect China is on here.
4chan is also a soft target but you don’t see parties or governments investing in propagandizing there because it’s full of basement dwelling incels who can’t do anything besides maybe shoot up a school.
there are almost certainly people propagandizing on chans, especially 4chans /pol/ as it has a fairly large user base and has proven to be very influential with dozens (or more) of academic papers written about its culture and dynamics.
https://firstmonday.org/ojs/index.php/fm/article/download/11075/11269/83226 this paper shows trends in pol posting surrounding major news events (mass shootings). Specifically after the Pittsburgh shooting they see a significant change of a small number of pro trump links circulated hundreds of times immediately in the aftermath, more so than before the incident. There are similar papers and many more describing the culture to help potential actors assimilate as quickly as possible
Again, the causal nature is impossible to prove (unless Hiroyuki starts leaking ips and they can be linked to someone somehow, I guess), but it appears someone(s) has been using that forum to make a concentrated effort to promote certain ideas, mainly pro trump propaganda and antisemitism.
Based on estimates 4chan gets anywhere from 20-60 million visitors per month. /pol/ alone sees well over 100-120k posts per day right now per 4stats.io, 4chans official stats. It’s by far one of the most active boards, running about the same as /vg/, dedicated to general gaming, and also full of bullshit but the whiny gamer kind (which is a well established pipeline to places like /pol/). whereas core 4chan boards like /b/ (random, the original board, where kind of anything goes), and /a/ (anime, probably the earliest board once it split from just /b/ for everything) being the next most active see barely half this, 40-50k posts per day.
Basically /pol/ sees a massive amount of discussion from a giant group of angry impressionable (often young but not always) people who are absolutely willing to campaign, make and spread memes, flood comment sections, etc. you’re foolish if you think that’s not being astroturfed and botted by people with vested interests. like is the trump campaign directly doing it? Probably not, but is one of their pacs kicking some money to some stormfront dudes who are? Maybe. It could also potentially be some weird trump group that spams and is otherwise unaffiliated with the campaign of course. That’s still propaganda, it’s just not sanctioned “officially”.
And this was touched on but the /pol/ influence is seen throughout the boards as well. They’ll spout their talking points on the videogame boards as mentioned like /v/, /vg/, etc to pull in gullible people but also the anime board (/a/), even slow boards like do it yourself (/diy/) which sees like 400 posts a day will get posts about immigration impacting trade jobs as a way to shoehorn in the typical rhetoric
In comparison according to fedidb lemmy has a bit under 400k users (a bit over 1/10th active, around 45k) and a bit over 8 million posts. That’s a footnote compared to 4chan which itself is dwarfed by the giants like reddit, facebook, etc that see monthly visitor counts in the billions. Of the fediverse mastodon would make the most sense to astroturf as it has significantly more users and posts. Unless they see serious growth potential and want to establish trust early on the platform, which would make sense I suppose, but looking at lemmys growth charted out that could be a very long wait for a return on investment. While posting is free paying people/bots to post isn’t. But perhaps they’re hoping it will become like /pol/, a niche forum on the internet that has decent enough traffic to become surprisingly influential. I do think this is unlikely, but who the fuck am I?
Of course, the statistics are not fully accurate here for either. 4chans traffic is estimated and sources vary pretty wildly, 4chans post counts should be accurate as that does come from 4chan. fedidb info is accurate but iirc doesn’t necessarily include all instances. That said it’s unlikely there’s an a few instances that would wildly skew the data and most estimates for 4chans traffic are on the higher end of 40-50 million visitors per month
Seriously, that’s buck wild. I hope they meant “they support the CCP”, which isn’t a stretch given the various Soviet-era iconography in the profiles of its maintainers (Mao, Castro, Gagarin, etc.), and not “they’re acting on behalf of the CCP”, which is such a ridiculous claim to make with no further substantiation.
Agreed. Many definitely support it
Spend some time browsing through the instances communities.
It is well known that that both the main devs of Lemmy (whose home instance is Lemmy.ml) are
communistssocialists who side with the ideals of China (CCP). Also, it may be less known that the .ml is short for Marxist/Leninist or Marx/Lenin. Either way, it’s a hat tip tocommunismsocialism.They are known for being heavy-handed with post/comment removal and bans of opposing views of any kind. Viewing their mod log would attest to that.
That’s is a lot of words to hand wave away a reasonable expectation as you say “do your own research.”
Stated without evidence dismissed without evidence, etc.
It’s really easy to demonstrate. Ask them for an alternative to Harris/Trump and they’ll run around in circles to not give you a candidate and then tell you voting doesn’t work.
A lot of people genuinely feel that way even if I think they’re wrong and it’s unproductive
I’d like to apologize that you felt my response was dismissive. I certainly did not intend to make anybody feel that way. I didn’t have any specific examples to give, so I approached it from an anecdotal point of view based on my personal experiences.
I appreciate that and I could definitely do with less snark in my comments. That being said accusing the CCP of astroturfing lemmy instance at scale is a serious claim and it needs real evidence.
If it means anything to you, my responses were not meant as accusations or attacks. Merely observations of the things I’ve personally seen. But I can appreciate your view of things, and I respect that you may disagree.
Does it matter who is doing it? Social media is rife with propaganda ever since r/the_donald was such a successful operation.
There are no volunteers that respond as quickly and consistently as r/t_d mods did. Anything counter to the narrative would be removed within seconds, at any time of day
Minor correction: tankies aren’t communists.
Now that you mention it, I just realized I meant socialism and not communism. Thank you.
They aren’t socialists either. Socialists want workers to own the means of production. MLs want the state to control the means of production. The two are inherently incompatible.
True though I’d give them props for accepting correction and actually thanking the source of it.
If everyone behaved that way, online spaces would be far less toxic and misinformation wouldn’t spread so easily.
Lol “You can just tell”
“most likely” it’s an opinion, so evidence not required.
If they said “it is run by ccp” then you may have a point.
Don’t play sophist games.
That might be an opinion (it’s not, “most likely” means they aren’t sure about a claim, not that the claim is an opinion), but even if it were if would be completely wrong. Lemmy.ml is, after all, owned by Dessalines, one of the creators of Lemmy, afaik does not live in China.
.ml is definitely a pretty authoritarian instance though and denying the Uyghur genocide in China seems to be a pretty common take there.
“Most likely” is not an opinion, it’s stating that it’s more likely than it isn’t which means you need evidence.
Imprecise statements =/= opinions.
Those same people are also the lead developers of lemmy.
Exhibit A of the original dev’s moderation style
Fuck that guy, best thing he did was make Lemmy open source so it can grow beyond their tiny little world view
Lol, you go and shit in someone’s house and then get upset that they kicked you out.
Using Lemmy in general pretty much is legitimizing lemmy.ml’s admin work though…
The thing about open source software, no one person gets the credit for it. Especially since the Reddit exodus there have been more and more contributors.
It’s not a good discussion when they ban you in the middle of it for saying NATO is a defensive alliance.
I said worse things about USSR history and I still comment on political LM posts when I feel like putting effort, and don’t even care about the instance if the subject is neutral. Their users did appreciate deeper digs in what it really was if I could produce some insights. The only user\mod I had problems with is y-tos, and I choose not to touch anything they write at all.
i feel like .ml is kind of hit or miss, some of the people on it are fine, some are just assholes, and some are just straight tankies. It’s a weird mix going on over there.
That was the default Lemmy instance for a very long time, so I guess for pre-reddit exodus folks it wasn’t more of a choice than for lemmy.world users now.
that would make sense in some aspects. Gotta love decentralized communities.
That is a shock? In my experience political and news communities are always biased and will remove anything that isn’t a part of the narrative. Some are worse than others but the desire to stop “misinformation” often leads to censorship.
lol Based
Its fair game because my comment got removed on lemmy.world for criticizing Israel.
Sounds like a challenge!
NATO is a defensive alliance and the Israeli government is filled with war criminals who need to be thrown in the Hauge
Edit: To the instance-blocked guy who replied that “Thrown in the Hauge” has a weird energy:
Fine, I missed a capital letter. But also: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Penitentiary_Institution
gets upvoted
thrown in the Hauge
I assume you meant The Hague but it’s a weird use of the phrase since it’s like saying “thrown in London”. But used as if it was like a dungeon or prison. Maybe “drag them to The Hague” would fit better.
“Thrown in The Hague” has the same energy as “take him to Detroit”
Edit: joke didn’t land
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
Shame those are the only two instances
That’s up to the mod. The admins generally don’t get involved
Oh wow, it’s not often that I find a comment that’s whataboutism and also a blatant lie. (I block every Hexbear account I see.)
Edit: stay mad, tankies. MLs aren’t leftists.
Because the discussion isn’t good, the instance admins themselves go from thread to thread removing anything that doesn’t agree with their chosen narrative of the week(subject to change according to the latest ccp talking points)
Because the discussion isn’t good…
Bro first line in the meme says “you see an amazing discussion”
Yeah, but then you see that the discussion is doomed because of where it’s happening.
Sometimes it isn’t bad. For instance the privacy community is generally pretty good. However, there are some mods who have a “different” way of seeing things. They want the communities they mod to be propaganda machines.
I used to get annoyed but now I just move on to different communities. I will say that the admins of Lemmy.ml have gotten a lot more reasonable. They are still politically far left but they don’t force there views nearly as much. Its some of the mods that are the problem. I don’t care what they believe in but you shouldn’t remove something because it challenges your beliefs
They’re not far left. They’re China/Russia shills. Authoritarianism isn’t far left.
Authoritarianism can be left or right
Some people get really bent out of shape that not every instance is exactly the same as lemmy.world, cheer-leading for the exact same worldview. They are intellectually brittle and emotionally weak, so when they don’t see the same group-think taking over somewhere they can’t control they need to post something like “BUT WE ALL HATE THEM OVER THERE, RIGHT FELLAS?! WE GOOD, THEM BAD! LET’S DE-FEDERATE!”
people that disagree with me are dumb and sensational, here’s an emotional strawman argument against them
World has its own problems. The rampant use of slurs/general ableism is unbelievable. If you say a word about it they shout you down with more vile slurs/insults.
… Such as?
Are you asking what terms they use?
Correct. I’ve been here for just a month, but so far I haven’t seen a single slur that’s ableist, homophobic, transphobic, racist, or xenophobic.
I see variations of the r-word several times a week. A lot of c-word too whenever women come up.
Say anything negative about that stupid mbfc bot in !news and you’ll get a ban.
Check my comment history. I routinely say many extremely negative things about that stupid MBFC bot in !news and have yet to receive a ban.
The mod logs don’t lie and LWA has responded in this thread acknowledging the issue.
Did you even look at the logs for the bans? Things like telling a real human person (not the bot) to “fuck off” definitely break the rules independent of thoughts on the bot. And the admin’s response was that they would look into it.
As @Kecessa stated, any interaction with lemmy.ml legitimises the entire instance.
I see this as an absolute win! The point of decentralized social media is that discussion happens across many different linked sites. It doesn’t work if lemmy.world is the only big site out there.
Sure have your beef with the admins of another server, but why get upset that discussions are happening there?
It’s only really a problem when comments get removed or people get banned because they have opposing views.
Bans are fine IMO, I don’t want tankie shit clogging up my feed. I should be able to block those views and the admin should be allowed to block them from participating if they so choose.
Its about tankies banning non tankies.
It’s different when our side does it
i realize the joke. BUT, tankies are generally pretty insufferable. Normies, don’t really happen to be all that insufferable, unless you’re a tankie who believes anything other than what you think is fucking extremist terrorist shit.
thats the point of instances, but idk why they show up in .ml or world in that case lol. You would think tankies would just directly echo chamber themselves, but they haven’t quite done that yet.
So are non tankies. Tankies don’t have a monopoly on being closed minded, being jerks, etc. lemmy.world is really bringing out the misanthropy in me today, for example.
Edit: Ugh, was just reminded about some of the things the tankies are saying. There’s no comparison.
classic tankie experience “surely the tankies aren’t SO bad” “oh”
Yeah, like banning the KKK makes me the intolerant one.
Have you ever had a short look at the modlog? Users getting banned from 10+ unrelated communities with reason “liberal”. All because some hater is a mod to multiple communities. Like what good does that serve?
The news@lemmyworld mods
adminshave been banning people for criticizing the MBFC bot, so yeah, let’s just keep using bans until this place looks like Reddit again.Edit: mods, not admins
mods, not admins. you confused me there lol
Pro palestinian comments get removed on lemmy.world. Some people have the same argument as you but about diametrically opposing idealogy
I have not had a single Pro-Palestinian comment get removed from world, and I’ve had some pretty confrontational conversations in support of Palestinians.
That’s been my experience as well
Have an example? It should be in the modlog.
As the top comment points out, they banned Linkerbaan. You could argue it was a public service.
I don’t agree with that user on most of the stuff but when it comes to israel you guys make them look like a normal person.
That’s a lot of context to read through. Thank you for the link.
There’s definitely not a concerted effort by the admins to suppress Palestinian support. What I’m hearing is you said something dumb that’s technically “pro palestinian”, and it got removed for being dumb.
i’ve had a lot of discussion on palestine and israel across instances and so far i dont think i’ve had a comment directly removed over it. Granted i’m more moderate on the position and not an extremist in any case so that probably helps my case a lot but still…
It’s important that one group of people should not be able to monopolize the discussion. I believe it’s important to the long-term health of the fediverse even if I don’t agree with some of those groups.
I agree there, but only if both sides of an argument are arguing in good faith. A lot of chucklenuts out there just want to start shit with bullshit arguments or to simply be contrarian. If one side is rational and using actual evidence while the other is blatantly pulling shit from their ass, that’s not good for anything.
The real solution would be for the decentralization to be happening in the background and for the platform to be accessible from one website and to let users take care of their own feed themselves.
But then it’s centralized on one website and the person who owns that domain has control over the whole
They only have control in the sense that they can shut down the website, but the content itself isn’t in their control. It would also be possible to have the hosting under a decentralized entity controlled democratically by the people providing the hosting space (à la DAO/DAC in crypto).
I just feel like the whole problem the fediverse is trying to solve is admins slowly selling out and then having to move somewhere else. Having one website still has that problem of switching costs if you want to go somewhere else, you lose access to everything in that sphere of content. If the sh.itjust.works admins go crazy and start moderating in a way you don’t like, you can go sign up on another instance and not lose any of the communities or people you used on your former instance.
But you still rely on the admins of your new instead to decide what content you have access to and on the admins of others instances for the same thing. What I’m saying is that the admins shouldn’t have that kind of power. Heck, the website issue could be solved by having a disconnection between the front and back end.
Decentralize the hosting and make the data available to all (this way all hosts have some of the data but not all of it and you can have all data backed up by other hosts so no host can just nuke part of the website) this way anyone is able to create a frontend. So sh.itjust.works would just show me all of Lemmy’s content in the way the dev decided would be best (the UI would be of their choosing), but I would be the one deciding which communities and users I’m blocking. If I decide I don’t like how my chosen frontend works anymore I could just go and log in to another frontend using the same credentials because the data isn’t hosted on the frontend’s servers.
No admins, just community moderators.
That is literally the way it works now. As an example - go to https://phtn.app/. Photon is a UI for lemmy. That specific website is hosted by the developer and you can log into any instance. I think Alexandrite and Voyager webapps act the same, but I haven’t tried them, so can’t be sure atm.
No it’s not, your instance of choice isn’t necessarily federated with 100% of all instances. The UI you’re using is loading the content that your instance gives you access to only. Example v I can’t see hexbear communities and they can’t see communities from my instance so the only place I can interact with hexbear users is if they comment on communities both our instances are federated with.
Isn’t that how it is already.
No, each instance can choose what instances it’s federated with so your experience in lazysoci.al can be completely different from mine on sh.itjust.works just like the experience of someone in beehaw or hexbear or Lemmy.world is completely different…
Normalise criticizing both the West and China/Russia for their shit.
Don’t make it your identity to defend horrible shit, anywhere.
Past or Present
Banned.
This, but unironically is ml experience
Confirmed! I was banned last week from the privacy ml sub for commenting
something along the lines offound exact comment from modlog which states ban was for violating rule 2 = “Be respectful” (i.e. anything the mods disagree with).Nothing. OP is a tankie / Russian PsyOps operative. If you care about a Russian billionaire who’s surveillance capitalism platform refuses to even acknowledge requests to remove criminals, you deserve to live under the boot of Russia’s authoritarian Kleptocracy. Save your energy for the **_actual_** wars on encryption and privacy that western plutocrats and capitalism are waging under the lie of Freedom™️.
I would argue the tankie instances/subs/users are actually Russian operatives, instead of CCP — same as it always is/was on Reddit.
Literally
Normalise criticizing both the West and China/Russia
But you still have to admit that the West is better. Otherwise you’re doing a Whataboutism
lemmy.world users when lemmy.ml user don’t immediately suck up to political propaganda
There’s a reason why having both world news communities from both instances is a good thing. You’ll receive a much wider range of sources and bias, as well as the perspective of people who don’t completely agree with you.
Staying within on instance community creates an echo chamber like reddit. There’s even such a wild difference within lemmy.world between c/Politics and c/News, despite them often posting similar news and info.
You’ll receive a much wider range of sources and bias, as well as the perspective of people who don’t completely agree with you.
That’s why I often interact with Truth Social /s
normally i would be inclined to agree with you, but when we’re talking about people who “believe” that the left is more of a fascist threat than the political right in the US, i don’t think that should be a valid held opinion currently.
The biggest differences seems to be .ml Russia and China are never wrong and Israel drinks the blood of Palestinian children. On .world Israel is just bad, and China and Russia have problems.
They are both generally left. I wouldn’t call that unbiased
Being non-right is a level of bias I think the world can live with.
Yes, unless you are the mbfc site
I genuinely have no idea what this is. I just came here for the cat memes. There are very few cat memes here.
Be the change you want to see in the world!
I haven’t found Lemmy.ml to be all that objectionable. It’s not like they are hexbear.
Try criticizing China’s government on one of their posts.
You don’t even have to. Most the time they’ll take whatever innocent topic/comment at had and somehow twist it into Russia/China Good, America/West bad.
They would never do that in China.
Sometimes they delete them silently and purge the mod log. I received a message from an admin once telling me that they don’t know how, but somehow another admin had hidden my comment from everyone else without notifying me that it had been removed, and purged the logs. I could still see it, but nobody else could.
There is no war in Ba Sing Se
We’ve always been at war with Ba Sing Se.
They can do that?
Criticizing the Chinese government is xenophobia! Straight to the gulag.
Happy cake day !
I’ll have you know that China is the greatest nation on earth.
Those people totally deserved to be silenced, jailed or killed. The Chinese government is the one trustworthy source of truth. Reality it mistaken.
Your Honor, I rest my case.
They’re not as bad as Hexbear, sure, but they’re constantly turning everything into a political discussion.
After spending a bit of time on communities based on their instance, you just get so sick of hearing about it.
Hexbear are vile, ML are just annoying.
Why are they vile?
hexbear is a circle jerk of neo tankie ass shittery.
If you show up in hexbear, and say literally anything moderately outside the scope of discussion you cop an immediate ban and get told to kys by like 12 people in about 12 seconds.
That was my experience at least.
Just like world?
world is better, there’s a lot more normies there. They’ll also generally talk with you rather then telling you to kys even if they yell at you while doing it.
I appreciate that part.
Go visit and see for yourself.
So no actual reason just continuing the rumor?
It would be extremely easy for you to pop in and see for yourself, if you don’t want to take my word for it.
I’ve seen one of their users say it’s ok for middle eastern countries to oppress LGBTQ people in an LGBTQ community. Haven’t seen much else from there because that’s when I decided the ml instances were more trouble than their worth and blocked them.
Wait until you see there thoughts on the evils of the west. They spout out propaganda and don’t do a lot of free thinking.
Not to say that regurgitated propaganda is unique to communism but it certainly is very common. It is the cold war way of thinking.
No they are tankies. I got banned from the comics sub for criticizing a comic that gave a, to put it nicely, very one sided perspective on communism.
Communist != Tankie.
Communism is explicitly an economic framework. “Tankie” defines authoritarians who believe in the Communist economic framework. That leaves a lot of room for all other sorts of Communists.
True, but only tankies remove/ban you if you’re even mildly critical of China or Russia
Yes, we know. .ml are authoritarian boot suckers.
You know, that would be a worthwhile discussion to have; but that hinges on the mods not banning and removing the comments of anyone with a critical perspective. As of now, this is not possible on lemmy.ml.
Also doesn’t seem possible on world
Tankie was coined by trotskyists to insult a slightly different kind of Leninist. Then anarchists picked it up and started calling trotskyists tankies. Now liberals call anarchists tankies. It’s the circle of life, in a few years if you say tankie people will assume you’re talking about Kamala Harris.
i thought tankie was universally accepted to just be a russia dick sucker but also commie. Why would this ever be applied to anarchists? That’s so vastly different i couldn’t see a world where that would even make sense.
From a liberal perspective what’s the difference between MLs having “critical support” for the Soviets or China and anarchists celebrating historical anarchists like Makhno and the CNT-FAI who burned churches and killed kulaks too? If anarchists are online supporting US foreign policy then liberals can assume you’re just a liberal and any claimed anarchism is just larping, but if anybody throws a brick through a Starbucks window that’s tankie authoritarianism stealing rights and freedoms from the Starbucks shareholders.
the most obvious difference is that the soviet union and china are massive government entities.
Most anarchists don’t really give a shit about much outside of the general tenants of anarchist structure. I for example like it because it’s like libertarianism but if it wasn’t stupid, and it’s also equally as much of a shitpost. Personally i believe anarchy is the state of government between two significant governmental entities, i don’t believe that anarchy holds a true state of power, merely an independent one.
I think that’s where its strength lies, it can be extremely decentralized and extremely productive when correctly utilized. It can very quickly spring up where needed, and very quickly break down when something more complete shows up to the party. It’s a lot more relevant on the individual to individual basis, as opposed to governments which often tend to overreach or extend past what they realistically should be doing. So it’s a nice stand in in that regard.
one thing i’ve noticed, is that a lot of “tankies” will be kind of, stupid for lack of a nicer term, they might believe that the russian government is the best, or the russian military is the strongest in the world for example. Which is not only silly, but arguably wrong. Anarchists don’t generally do this kind of thing. We’re a lot less directly ingrained with these sorts of power structures on a fundamental level.
Granted a lot of us are political active, as is the norm for political types, like i said we aren’t extremely attached to any one thing. I’m sure there are people in my instance who would disagree with what i’ve said, but that’s part of anarchism IMO. It doesn’t really ascribe anything in particular.
you can also look into this instance specifically, as it’s anarchy adjacent. There’s some fun stuff over here.
This is true if you ignore what words mean
In my experience you can’t have one without the other. To be a communist you need to completely ignore the issues with it. Communism isn’t successful without prohibiting the spread of information. Even then it breaks down after a few decades. It is more about hiding the state of things and crushing descent.
I’m far from a noted communist and I’m pretty sure none of those things are definitionally related to communism. Why would a diminishing of public property necessitate prohibiting the spread of information?
Too most on world tankie just means someone I don’t like
I’ve had comments deleted that ran against the grain at .ml, even when they were adequately sourced. I don’t think the instance is necessarily objectionable, but the mods will object to things they don’t want to hear.
I don’t think I’ve ever had a comment deleted there, but I blocked the instance anyway. Life is too short to engage with people whose values are entirely antithetical to my own. At least not on their home turf.
As long as your sick to non political or historical communities, they are tolerable. Any deviation from above and you might as well be on hexbear.
So then why not just block those subs?
I did block entire hexbear and specific communities on ml. I just meant subjects in general.
Hex-bear is the reason I’m on Lemmy.world. That’s why I think people are overblowing the .ML drama.
You want to see tankies? Look at Hexbear
It is definitely worse on hexbear. However, if you look at the top posts on Lemmy.ml it is pretty bad.
stick to the linux subs and you’ll be ok over there. As soon as politics comes up, they go full tankie.
In fairness they probably find the Lemmy.world politics subs equally as divisive.
I stick clear of politics on Lemmy all together unless I really can’t hold my tongue
This post pretty much sums up my problems with .ml
Just an example of mod tools in action…
Why do you love genocide?
Even Hexbear has interesting content sometimes. Also, they have great stickers.
I don’t get this animosity between instances. That’s why I’m on lemm.ee: it feels like the capibara instance.
Check the mod logs from the shit communities there. They will full on ban you just for having a liberal perspective.
That place is hot garbage.
Some of us are nice
Since blocking .ml, I’ve not accidentally contributed to things there. As a result, I haven’t had any hate in my inbox since. Just nice, respectful interactions and discussions.
Ooooh I’m about to stuff that inbox FULL of hate!
Your mistake is not having lemmy.ml blocked
How? I keep seeing hexbear comments even though I blocked the entire instance
Eh, it’s no lemmygrad
Lemmtgrad/Ml/hexbear occupy the same landscape
The same landscape = Russian “troll farm” operatives.
It is worse, more worse and worst.
Can I just not have it at all?
I’m subbed to a handful of communities in .ml and it’s not that bad. I consider myself communist, but not of the tankie flavor. Authoritarianism is never a good thing.
If people don’t like those views, they shouldn’t wade in unless they’re willing to have a grounded conversation and not just drop a played out one-liner. I think the most recent uptick in complaints about .ml are because of how often it criticizes liberalism.
Lemmy instances are essentially forums. If I go to a conservative community and tell them all that Marx was right all along, I’m not gonna be surprised when I get banned. Complaining about mods is a tale as old as time itself.
They literally censor comments even in non political Communities.
Lemmy.ml is just a Propaganda-Machine.
I’m the type that will leave views up so the conversation can happen, unless the comment is racist, homophobic, blatantly trolling, etc. I’ve read the Lemmy.ml rules and they’re pretty rudimentary, so idk what some of their mods are doing.
That said, this is what happens when people have control of their communities vs a corporation. It’s a welcome freedom that comes with its pitfalls. The positive is that there are tons of servers with similar communities. If you’re not of the communist flavor, it’s probably a community that you will constantly be at odds with.
Yeah lets ban discussion too eh.
That’s how I see .ml because you have to be in the cult and not question anything or get banned.
The alternatives are that you find other servers to post on, or you go back to corporate-controlled websites (which would honestly be silly with the amount of Lemmy instances that exist now). So if you commonly find yourself at odds with the subject matter, you can post elsewhere. I’m sure there’s some conservative/other flavor Lemmy communities out there that function the same way. That’s the beauty of the open internet, but it also means people can ban you for whatever reasons they want and there are no repercussions.
So you wade in at your own risk, which you’re doing either way because there is no strict corporate structure overseeing the rules. It doesn’t mean that every decision people running those sites make is suddenly good, but you at least have freedom of choice when it comes to what servers and communities fit for you. Just like instance runners like myself can also decide which servers to federate with, while blocking others.
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Angry because you don’t want to see content from Lemmy.ml
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Angry because they don’t want to see your content either
:-/
Didn’t say that, like at all.
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I got banned there for stating an opinion and at that point I don’t really know what to do anymore. You have a handful of people who spout their one sided talking points into the void (probably) and if anyone says anything, they get banned.
They can have their bubble there but aren’t bubbles the fundamental problem of social media?
So they do nothing about broader and fundamental problems of social media which they should do as alternative social media platform.
Try saying anything negative of Putin/Russia (apparently also China/Xi) and you’ll see how pro-authoritarian and heavily censored their threads are. I know because that’s what got me banned from the privacy ml sub last week!
Edit: found exact comment from modlog which states ban was for violating rule 2 = “Be respectful” (i.e. anything the mods disagree with).
Nothing. OP is a tankie / Russian PsyOps operative. If you care about a Russian billionaire who’s surveillance capitalism platform refuses to even acknowledge requests to remove criminals, you deserve to live under the boot of Russia’s authoritarian Kleptocracy. Save your energy for the **_actual_** wars on encryption and privacy that western plutocrats and capitalism are waging under the lie of Freedom™️.
What’s a better way to make our little community bigger and better that having pesky antagonisms over every little difference we can find.
We better centralize over a single instance of people thinking exactly like we do.
Big /S by the way.
And I’m not even from .ml but come’on, we share more than we disagree on.
The .ml instance has deliberately overt bias and will literally ban you for not agreeing with their interpretation of Marxist-Leninist communism.
Bad faith “conversation” is their thing.
Many of their communities are becoming “the Donald” type situations.
You choose to socialize and mingle with who you want
I fully expect the MAGA mentality is fully transferable to any other far-left ideological group with a purity doctrine that is exclusive and abusive to outsiders.
This mentality is actually ideologically agnostic and will ride any wave it can to feed the emotional needs of the adherent.
How is that different from say news on .world?
They both ban on ideology.
The .ml instance has deliberately overt bias
My guy, you’re posting in a thread that’s just Overt Bias + Meme. I don’t think anyone here has room to talk
This is a meme.
I also don’t see anyone running around spouting misinformation here and deliberately misinterpreting history.
I also don’t see anyone get banned for their opinions here.
I got banned from a .ml meme/comic sub the other day for knowing more about world history than they did.
For calling the outright misinformation what it was and just generally not agreeing with them
Many .ml communities are becoming (or already are) their own little the_donald type communities.
ML is run by tankies, who historically infiltrate, corrupt, and eliminate anarchist projects with anti-socialist, anti-communist, and hierarchical methods and motivations. MLs are to Anarchists as a tapeworm is to a cow.
Edit: stay mad, tankies.
I disagree.
I’ve worked in actual political projects in the streets. And I haven’t found that.
You can be forever reading online why some people are the evil incarnated. But when you met and work with people for a common goal reality tend to be better.
Judging without truly knowing is one of the things we all should be striving to avoid. There are wonderful people everywhere.
I would recommend yo actually go participate in some common local political protects of you can find some. For me it was eye opening to see that despite one or two things we have common goals, objectives and very likewise minds.
I also refuse to participate in the endless split of the leftist space, and the never ending false divisions that only weaken us. So for a long time I’ve refused to identify with any particular leftist group. I am just for the common benefit of humandkind and will welcome anyone with the same goal.
I don’t know why you are using in person community praxis as a refutation of an online space being toxic
Real life isn’t online, the issue is an online space being shitty
I don’t find .ml specially toxic or shitty. I certainly hasn’t been called “asshole” by any .ml user or in any .ml space recently. Couldn’t say the same for other instances… There are wonderful people everywhere, and sadly bad people everywhere too. As far as .ml .world or any other of these big instances I don’t appreciate any more toxicity in one place or other.
You’re assuming a lot about me, typical of tankie apologia. You assert these things without evidence defying my own experience and the wisdom of history. Why should anyone trust you, and even if you’re not making it up, why should we ignore the weight of evidence that lies beyond your anecdotes?
You do you. I refuse to keep weakening our common political space for nothing. Because that’s what we’ll get if we keep dividing. Nothing.
You sound like an appeaser. If you want an imperfect ally, I recommend liberals. Less dishonest and not as likely to round you up in the middle of the night and put a bullet in your head. Liberals are also more numerous than tankies, less indoctrinated, and not usually as politically aware which makes them easier to educate. There’s no reason to side with tankies over liberals. Tankies also famously divide the left from liberals, probably because they realize if Anarchists can unite against their common enemy with liberals the tankies can’t leverage power away from the Anarchists.
Tankies aren’t even leftists, so don’t pretend that their spaces are leftist spaces.
Got any more names to call me? I’ve already got called tankie apologist, appeaser, anything else?. You have lots of names for those who think different than you. Also lots of hate, sorry for that.
You choose your allies. But don’t deny people working for the betterment of the working clase the name of leftists, please.
Edit: I just realized that by liberals you probably mean American liberals, democratic party and such?, not economic liberals? It can be confusing from people elsewhere. Anyway, american “liberals” let’s say the democratic party is cool in my book. Afaik also working for the betterment of their people. But not American so people over there may have a better understanding of those. Where I live the equivalent would probably be the socdems, which are of course allies of mine.
I feel no need to side between (american)liberals and communists. If some of those refuse each other it is their problem, I would consider both part of the left spectrum and be willing to work with each.
names to call me
I said what you sounded like and what your rhetoric was typical of, I didn’t call you any names. Here’s an actual name for you in particular: You are an asshole. You tried to call me out, assumed things of me that weren’t true, and now you’re pretending that I’m treating you unreasonably. Fuck all the way off.
And unfortunately lemmy.ml is getting more online traffic recently.
Is it? It looks pretty stable to me. Conversely, world, lemm.ee and shitjustworks are all experiencing slight but noticeable growth.
Lemmy could really do with the ability to transfer an account to a new instance. The only reason I’m still on lemmy.world is because I can’t be bothered to set up an account on another instance that may be as insufferable.
As for communities, Lemmy just isn’t large enough to be picky. World is the biggest instance, but is still dead on anything that’s not either a Reddit clone or a popular community.
There is an export feature that will spit out a json file and you can import it to a new instance. It will carry over your subbed communities and blocked accounts. I use it to sync accounts on different instances (My instance can be slow sometimes)
I don’t know. What’s the problem with lemmy.ml?
Any part of any discussion that verges into criticizing Russia or China gets removed by either mods or passing site admins.
Any comment that is anti-the-West gets a pass no matter how uncivil, inflamatory or dishonest it is.
Why? What’s so different between lemmy.world and lemmy.ml (idk what the ml is for)
Different site admins.
Depending on which mods you allow, which sitewide rules you set, and not least how you applu or not apply the rules, you get wildly different instances.
This only happens on worldnews@lemmy.ml
A few others also. Like memes. https://lemmy.world/post/19190223
Ah ok, fair enough. I’ve only had problems with the world news mods so far, but makes sense that some of the other mods can be bad too.
It happens across the whole instance, it’s an admin level problem. My favorite is when you say something critical of the site admins, Russia, or China and get not only the comment removed, and not just banned from that community, but any other community the particular user moderates
Imagine being that petty- someone disagrees with your chosen political stance, so you go community by community and ban them from every one to protect your fee fees.
Think I’m blowing smoke? See for yourself.
Tankie detected.
??? Explain
Minimizing the pervasiveness and impact of shitty tankie behavior is shitty tankie behavior.
I’m just pointing out the nuance. Broad brush doesn’t help anyone. If you automatically assume everyone from lemmy.ml is a tankie, even though it’s one of the largest instances, and the original Lemmy instance, then you’re doing yourself and all the more moderate users on lemmy.ml a disservice.
I’m very much not minimizing the shittiness of worldnews@lemmy.ml.
“That only happens…” is minimizing no matter how you slice it. Insinuating that I said everyone on .ml is a tankie is also dishonest.
Mostly militant tankie mods in worldnews@lemmy.ml. The rest of the instance is fine actually; Their admins aren’t as zealous.
The admins are actually pretty chill. They leave the moderation to the mods. That can be really good or really bad.
It is decently well know that they are communist. They don’t go around forcing there views on others though. I respect them for that.
Yeah, that’s what I mean, the admins aren’t forcing their ideas on people, it’s just the mods.
It’s full of originally stupidly pro-communist, now joined by the stupidly anti-communist people. Most of their discussions are “communism good you dumb” and “communism bad you dumb”, with a bunch of kindergarten level gotchas.
ok, i got it
I love .ml and it’s where I go when I’m in the right mood. Maybe it’s not for everyone, but I say meet .ml halfway.
Right you are, I am almost complete opposite end of political compass from .ml but still end up having interesting discussions and finding commonalities. To me .world is where the echo chamber dwelling momos live.
