Eh, and as almost my every comment like this one, it got reported by some LW user with reason “pro Russian bot” :/
If you think that caring about peoples’ lives and posting evidence of human right abuses is somehow a sign of a person being Russian, or just something that is worth a condemnation… What kind of mental gymnastics routine are you doing every morning to still consider yourself a good person?..

For all the people here “supporting Ukraine” because you know, if Putin captures Ukraine then he will genocide Ukrainians and all that - this is exactly the same narration that Zelensky’s regime is using to kidnap people and send them to the meatgrinder (kill them). A video from Kharkiv where TCC attempts to kidnap people from a bus scaring them with “Russian World” coming to Ukraine: https://files.catbox.moe/c72hez.MP4

People in the bus are accusing them of being “a traitor to the motherland” and telling them to go fuck themselves. But you know better what those people should do, right? They all should go and die for your wild fantasies of “but but but Putin will invade the whole world if we don’t stop him (well, not you personally of course, why would you go and fight your wars, but you know, Ukrainians)”.
After all, Zelensky said that Ukrainians are willing to fight, and he would never lie, right? All the videos, articles in your western medias about people NOT wanting to fight but still being exterminated by Zelensky’s regime, etc are fakes.

I disagree, Europe needs to never cede Ukraine at any cost—anything else is rewarding the warmonger

Yeah, why would Europe do that? After all its Ukrainians who will continue dying after being kidnapped off the streets and forbidden to leave the country.
Enjoy your life, and don’t think of hundreds of thousands dead people (not like you ever did that of course)…

The Americans are going to get out of this war,

I just hope he is correct

Nope, Ukraine.

Why would you think that I’m talking about Russia? Is it Russia that doesn’t let its citizens out of the country?

Well, it seems that we won’t come to an agreement here.

As I said, for me mass forbidding people to leave the country is unjustifiable. If some regime does it, whatever the reason, it deserves to be destroyed, and I wholeheartedly support the destruction of that regime. I wouldn’t like to live under such a regime and wouldn’t wish it for other people.

And yeah, I’m not going to stop caring about mine and other people’s freedom :)

There can be no justification for mass forbidding people to leave the country.

country desperately defending themselves

This is exactly the same justification Zelensky is using. Both are wrong.

But what is the contradiction here? :)

In my mind North Korea associates with people being unable to leave it (which you don’t deny), Zelensky did the same to Ukraine, therefore the analogy.

Spoiler alert, the two words are “No Gamechanger”.

I don’t know what could be a “gamechanger” in a war where one side (of course the good one) prevents its people from leaving the country, kidnaps people from the streets to sends them to the frontlines to die, and then has the audacity to complain that people are deserting in record high numbers and either try to escape the country or hide until the regime falls… :/

Well, I wasn’t saying that NK kidnaps and massacres its citizens like Zelensky’s regime does, I was referring to not being able to leave the country, and in that regard the regimes seems similar to me.

I mean they have a grand total of 3 borders of which one is shoot to kill zone, and while they have to get passport and probably visa too they can go to China and Russia, though the numbers aren’t that high afaik.

So it’s not a problem for North Koreans to obtain a passport and cross the border into China/Russia (and from there to any other country, of course provided that that country will let them in)? From what I’ve heard it’s next to impossible, but if that’s just western/American propaganda I’d like to read some articles and learn something new.

I have looked only at the name of the links and not the actual content (there are too many of them) - but I didn’t notice anything about North Koreans being able to leave the country by means other than “illegally” crossing the border (this is the criterian I used to compare the countries)? If one of the links covers this topic I’d be interested in reading it.

Are people in Russian-occupied territories free to protest against Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? No. They would get put in prison, or worse. So they aren’t free.

The only free people in this reality are billionaires. It’s not about who is free, it is about who is more free. Are you trying to say that people on liberated territories are less free than people on Zelensky controlled territories because… they can protest Russia’s invasion of Ukraine? So the ability to protest Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is more important than freedom of movement and not being kidnapped from the streets?

I do think Ukrainians should be allowed to leave Ukraine.

Well thank you at least for that (that’s not even sarcasm btw, that’s already more helpful than most of the world), but again - you support Zelensky’s regime which is the one making it impossible.

But you seem to be blaming Zelenskyy for the Russian shells, being fired by Russian forces.

I blame him for turning Ukraine into his North Korea. I blame him for trapping people, who die trying to cross the border by mountains/rivers, or hide at homes afraid to leave. I blame him for kidnapping people from the streets and sending them to the meatgrinder (so, killing them).

For some reason you don’t want to put any blame at all on the Kremlin - why is that?

Here it is: I condemn Kremlin, Russia, Putin and everybody else responsible for this war.

But “Ukraine bad”, “Russia good” right? Why criticizing only Ukraine and Zelensky since they’re defending their land and not even a word against Russia or Putin?

I never said “Russia good”.
Here, just for you: Russia and Putin are bad.

You make it seem like that surrendering to an invasion is the right thing to do.

No, I don’t.

So if Russia decided to invade the whole of Europe we should sit waiting for russian soldiers to rape our sisters and moms and execute us with our hands tied behind our back?

No, you are free to do what you want, including fighting Russia. But if you try to to kill me, my family, my friends - don’t be surprised that I’d rather support Russia than you…

Moreover, in occupied Ukraine people get drafted anyways by Russia to fight Ukrainian soldiers. So what? Should they surrender waiting to go to the opposite side?

People who accept Russian citizenship (which is generally not forced onto anyone) may get drafted (there was some exemption though for people on liberated territories till 2024, not sure if it’s still in effect though). People are frre to leave at any moment though.
This is also wrong, but in no way comparable to Zelensky’s regime kidnapping people on the streets every single day and trapping them in the country. (There were some cases of that happening in LPR & DPR previously, which is also terrible, but again not nearly on a similar scale to what Zelensky is doing)

I do think there is a point to make here. Ukrainians should be free to leave their country if they want.

But you still support Zelensky’s regime that makes it impossible, don’t you? :/
You might not believe me, but if Zelensky didn’t turn Ukraine into his small huge North Korea where trapped people are kidnapped from the streets and sent to the meatgrinder - I’d be donating money to my country every month. But Zelensky made sure to make this impossible - supporting his regime is supporting trapping innocent people in a war-torn country with missiles/drones/shells flying over them. People afraid of leaving their homes because “recruitment officers” can kidnap them them and send to die. People try to escape this hell, and die trying to “illegally” cross the border through rivers/mountains. Zelensky made sure to become our enemy #1.

But anyway, I strongly disagree with your view that Russia’s imperialist invasion of Ukraine is “liberating” anything or anyone.

But how is this not a liberation? Quote from a dictionary:

To set free, as from oppression, confinement, or foreign control.

People on the liberated territories are not confined and can leave at any time. People on Zelensky controlled territories quite literally cannot leave. You can argue that it wasn’t started as liberation. But it is now, unless my dictionary is wrong about the definition of word “liberate”. It didn’t have to be, but thanks to Zelensky it is.

Maybe if blood thirsty dictator putin didn’t start a war of aggression, there could have been 0 deaths.

That’s probably correct. I’m not Putin though, could you please not hold me accountable for his actions?

I’d rather die fighting russia than dying by their firing squad, being raped, tortured, electrocuted or malnourished in their prisons.

Ok, that’s your choice, you are free to do whatever you want, including dying for your beliefs, it is not a problem.
A problem begins when you want/support other people dying for your beliefs.

Lol, people usually report me because “spreading misinformation/propaganda” or something along those lines, but @SomeGuy69@lemmy.world is more creative and reported this comment for “talking like a true rapist” :D

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй

Да, хорошую историю с нашими “героями” которые якобы предпочли умереть чем сдаться русским форсили тогда в новостях… Потом правда оказалось что они таки все сдались, и даже в википедии на понятном для тебя языке это описано, но история то какая ;)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_warship,_go_fuck_yourself

Anyway, calling me Ivan (a Slavic, not a Russian name) and writing to me in Russian to allege that I’m Russian is incredibly stupid… You do know that Ukraine (except the western part of it) speaks (or rather speaked, until the war and introduction of “language-police” in some cities…) Russian a lot, and especially so in cities? I’ve heard very little Ukrainian on the streets back when I lived in Ukraine :)

Anyway, you do not seem to be interested in having a discussion or changing your mind :(

Liberated? Go and fuck yourself, Russian troll.

Well, I didn’t expect a better answer :)

Is it better to be drafted now, or wait until Putin has another territory to “liberate”

Are you absolutely seriously asking whether it is better to almost cetrainly die now, or have a chance of dying in some hypothetical situation later? I’ll choose the latter every single time, thank you…

Is it suddenly ok when it’s Russia drafting “free” Ukrainians from those “liberated” territories?

No, it’s also not OK. It doesn’t happen on even remotely similar scale to what Zelensky is doing.

Are the kidnapped children free now? Happy? Doubtful.

Probably not.
At least they are alive in contrast to all the men Zelensky’s regime kidnapped and sent to die.

Living there, it seems like you live your normal life. But you can’t express your thoughts, there are topics you can’t discuss, you can’t go where you want. You live like a spider in a jar. You are kept inside, and you run in circles like horses in a circus ring. Those who expect Ukraine to save us are having a hard time. It’s hard on morale. You’re not allowed to speak about Ukraine; Ukrainian symbols are banned. If you hear something, or say something they think is wrong, they grab you and put you in a basement.

So, the same as in Ukraine, but without the kidnappings and with an ability to leave at any time.