allow me to be the batshit representative from lemmy.ml to argue with you :P

Honestly, I just hate the instance bashing. Most people didn’t have a real informed “choice” when it comes to their first instance. This seemed like an instance with good uptime and connectivity to me compared to the single admin instance I had before, the only factor that really matters to me. I see what you’re saying about % of users, but those people exist on every instance and like you said, they can just jump over and make a new account. If I’m being judged by the .ml next to my name and not the content of my reply, then they were really never going to listen to anything I had to say regardless, so I’ve decided to stay with this instance.

I think you’re seeing more arguments on those instances because it’s more of a melting pot. People who all agree with each other’s perspectives and have similar life experience aren’t going to have a lot to discuss besides patting each other on the backs and talking about subtle nuances of the subject matter. I do agree with your entire premise of the downvotes, which is why I’m replying to begin with. I like the thought of a downvote system, something that would hinder off-topic or abusive material, but it’s just horribly abused by users.

A proper system would see two competing articles and the one which provides the most information with a legible format would be upvoted the most. Now it’s which one has the most comments, what user uploaded it, what website was the article published on, which headline is catchier regardless of the article’s own words being taken out of context, what instance/community is this being posted on, etc etc.

Maybe I’m just confused and using this site and reddit wrong. From my conversations about downvotes, my understanding is less time is being spent on reading the article or links, and more just running through upvoting/downvoting like it’s tinder matches. I don’t get it because it’s not like youtube suggestions where you’re creating an algorithm for your likes/dislikes. You’re just creating a general feed of populace attention-seeking content and creating the pattern for a hive mind to form.

I think any of the many solutions would be a step forward, votes being public (all your other interactions are public/not done anonymously, and likes/dislikes has no commonality to democratic voting so people need to stop conflating the two), blocking any downvotes like lemmynsfw.com successfully implemented (you can still report off topic, etc), can only dowvote in joined communities or content you’ve engaged with, and many other ideas. All sorts of solutions that will stop us from going down the same path as Reddit, luckily we have instances to experiment different approaches with that we can point to for data in the future. I guess I prefer more of a forum style but those always get overtaken by zealous admins/site ideology and eventually hyperactive community members meaning it’s hard or not worth the effort to actually engage with the drama surrounding the subject you want to discuss (even some shroom forums get like this, absolutely crazy).

I’m not sure on the technical aspect but I think “instance blocking” should be an OPT-IN message sent to users of the instance. For example, say lemmy.world wanted to block lemmy.ml, hexbear, and reddthat. Each instance is added to a “Suggested blocked instance” setting in your profile and a message is sent to the user notifying them the opt-in option is available. Could have a whole list with descriptions besides the instances for why the suggested block option is there. Users would be informed with an actionable option and not automatically opted in. Could just be a toggle-able switch list in user settings.

I gotta say, this article makes me feel sane again.

TIL you can litter train a bunny, really wish I knew that growing up since my family had a pet bunny when I was young and had to constantly clean up after it. I was wondering how anyone could do this with a bunny shitting all over the house.

Yeah, but it’s not Youtube making the content I guess is my problem. Everyone is mostly here because of all the Reddit crap, doing the EXACT same thing google did to videos with youtube. No one here is completely fine with a "Reddit Premium Account!"^tm I patron a few creators so I help with what I can, I will not join the youtube “member” additional fee. I also have been trying to branch out to creators that upload to multiple sites, it can be a little bit of a pain like figuring out Lemmy and how everything works but obviously it’s better than sticking with a company gouging and controlling content on their platform for profit.

Those sponsor spots absolutely blow my mind. They’re there, forever in the video no matter how times it’s viewed. That’s a lot of trust to have in an advertising relationship, both the creator (who is basically tattooing a person in a portrait they’re painting with an ad) and company have to determine if it’s enough compensation based on… feels I guess lol. I’m pretty sure there is some after data but how do you know which videos take off or not? Then if there’s any controversy, whole things a mess and I hope they get a lot for it.

The overcooked series is definitely fun and always comes up cheap on sales for like 3 bucks. It’s definitely one to add to any co-op rotation because it’s easy to learn but hard to execute so you’ll always be going back to get those extra stars you missed.

That’s just not the same at all. How many times do you get to vote on the referenda? I’m really interested to know where this mindset comes from that a social media upvote/downvote is anything like a real political “vote”. It’s completely different except the name, is that where the confusion is coming from? Is this an age/demographic thing?

You can vote no or yes on a referendum. The Upvote is for comments that contribute, the downvote is for off-topic not that you disagree with the policy! By continuing this logic you’re exposing you want to continue “Voting” on whether you agree with a topic in “privacy”. That’s not how public discourse works, which this is. You guys are acting like everyone is a guest speaker and you’re the X-factor judge deciding if they should continue or get off the stage.

Anyone looking at the actual voting system on here would not say it’s democratic or fair/balanced. There are no protections or even logic to construct a system like that because we’re not voting on policies! This is a town square, not your local council. You’re wanting to walk into the square and vote on the flowers or people walking by, that’s not how public interaction should work!

In every single thread the downvote is abused as a “I disagree” or as a reactionary “I don’t like this person”. It does absolutely nothing for the conversation, it’s solely for others to feel better if the numbers match their own personality or to dissuade the person who’s being downvoted from voicing their opinion.

This whole event is rather sad and disheartening like a depressing xkcd

Everyone’s fleshed out a lot of the discussions so I’ll just bullet point my opinion to try to better explain the discourse I’m seeing on here

• I view “Lemmy” like it’s a Community Center with group discussions, Community gatherings, and/or lectures with public comments. If you’re in the crowd “Booing” (downvoting) without standing up and making your position clear, you’re not adding anything to the discussion.

• Downvote/Upvote is not like “Booth Voting” at all. You have ONE vote in a democracy, that’s the core principle. You don’t vote Yes for a candidate then vote No for another. You don’t see a ticker above the booth tallying everyone’s vote that was before you (voter manipulation, why hidden scores became a thing).

• I think this would go over a lot better if mods had the choice of how to present the votes. Opt in or out of showing voters, opt in or out of showing scores or eliminating downvotes or even upvotes if you want. Give the power to the community and create useful tools for mods to try out.

You keep getting heated and bringing up other things that aren’t equated trying to make some type of metaphor and it’s not connecting for me so I apologize if you’re getting frustrated. I don’t see the social-score and “you have nothing to hide” being a valid argument that pertains to this discussion and just fear mongering distracting from a simple forum mechanic and a system of interacting with it.

I think the upvote/downvote system is abused by the general user by default when it comes to anonymity and many more are tempted as time progresses. When you’re in a crowd you don’t boo or cheer anonymously, it’s an open public space where people see your actions. More accountability to the people interacting with a system seems like a positive to me.

In regards to the security/protection thing, others have already chimed in and hopefully you understand the data is already tracked and available to those who have a desire for it. My relevant parts where I talked about it before

You are not private or anonymous on here, if your actions on this platform put you in danger than do not continue to interact thinking it’s completely safe! These things can already be seen, this discussion is about making it show up in every UI by default instead.

Again, please stop saying this removes protections for trans/gay. That information is already public and you’re making it seem like they are currently safe versus what this change would do to them. The blocking scenario is what happens now, you just wouldn’t know they made a new account unless you’re actually able to see it. IDK why you brought video games into this, more often it’s for cheats as trolls and harassment get left unchecked on a lot of platforms. If votes don’t matter now why not change it to a form where they do matter?

If I disagree with something I’ll usually comment or upvote someone who has the same sentiment. I try my best not to petty downvote anything and I don’t understand why you’re stating you have to declare why you upvote, it’s something you find as a contribution, already defined for an intended purpose. This doesn’t take away any meaningful engagement besides mass voting in your scenario, people will still comment who have something to say. I think we just see two different sides of the aisle lol, ty for the discussion btw.

Gah, way to take it to extreme. You are not private or anonymous on here, if your actions on this platform put you in danger than do not continue to interact thinking it’s completely safe! These things can already be seen, this discussion is about making it show up in every UI by default instead.

If someone is going through your history and downvoting in a harassing way, just block them. They’re not there for discussion and the problem is solved. Without seeing a repeat offender you’ll never know and the harassment can continue. I see discussions being more open honestly, you actually have to take a second to think about your downvote instead of just gut reacting it.

I agree it would lead to less interaction, but the interaction lost would only be downvotes being used as a disagree button. No one is going to get harassed for downvoting a bot posting an ad or someone just completely off-topic, that which the downvote is suppose to be used for. In your scenario you point out that the comments you seek out have so many upvotes-downvotes because it’s controversial, not that it doesn’t add to the discussion.

I saw some other’s commenting about “private ballot boxes” but I think that’s a false equivalency. You Vote in a democracy on policy and representation, not discourse. You’re basically saying your upvote/downvote is being used to police conversation and who you think best represents you.

I’ve been looking for someone to touch on this. I didn’t like youtube getting rid of the downvotes but…what did it change? The only incidents I can think of is when there’s vote bombing on a really bad video. Lemmynsfw got rid of downvotes and they’re better for it. The only exception I can think of is a technical video that is just factually wrong but then there’s always a comment highlighting that with upvotes. Seems like the only thing we lost was sensational downvoting and the thrill of jumping on a like-minded group dislike.

I thought the whole argument was the internet was an echo chamber because of it being anonymous. Look at right-wing groups that employ masks where they can hide their true intentions behind “just being normal citizens”. It’s the groups like “Moms for Liberty” that are outed for their corruption because they have to use a public face during council meetings and such where you can’t be anonymous.

I’m having trouble seeing how downvotes being public would lead to more harassment. You would have to make sure you’re comfortable with putting your opinion forward just like with commenting. If there’s someone going around downvoting someone relentlessly it will be brought to light for all to see, not hidden like it is now. That would encourage more people to speak up because their detractors would have to do so publicly and without explanation they seem like they’re not bringing anything to the table in the discussion (returning downvotes to their true intention in the process).

edit’ format, grammar

is it weird that I don’t think it really looks like Starcraft (would probably be an improvement if it did though)? I’ve been looking at a lot of newer or undeveloped games like someone posted in one of the cross posts and all the games just have this moba-mobile look that seems like everyone is stuck on.

It’s like AI generated images, they all have this same look and feel to them no matter what it is but you can’t quite explain the fakeness to it. I can’t even really look at older games art styles comparing to the newer without getting confused with what’s happening or how it could be corrected.

You guys are blowing my mind. I had always heard of Day9 back in the day (all into the rts sceme) but didn’t really follow him and probably partially why it was great to run into that video.

I did not know he was tasteless’s brother (seem him broadcasting before) and his mother works with FG and he’s younger than me (kinda really shocking on that one, his picture from just 10 years ago makes me think covid hit him hard lol).

I totally understand and why I presented it as a company meeting lol. I unfortunately have been in one where things are explained over and over because the individuals on a team just aren’t grasping the concept and keep giving push-back. I also listened to it while laying down to sleep so it was a great lullaby.

lol now I wanna see an indian in the cupboard stargate spin-off